Facebook Group: Cheshire Moths

[SteveH]

Facebook Group: Cheshire Moths:

Hi Folks,

The subject of Facebook came up in the meeting I had with Steve Hind and Gary Hedges on 5th September 2017 - and it was decided that there ought to be group set up - it will be known simply as "Cheshire Moths". One of the driving forces behind the decision was that from the success seen in adjacent Counties and their moth-specific groups it was too good an opportunity to pass up as an additional source of moth records in VC58.

The idea isn't to compete with this forum, more to run in tandem with it. Whether you opt to join the group or not is entirely up to the individual. Speaking personally, I can think of few things I would like to do less than create a Facebook account but of necessity I will be biting the bullet any day now. Contributors to last year's Annual Moth Report will be invited to the group which will be administrated by Steve, Gary and myself once it has been set up.

Cheers,
Steve

[melbellingham]

Hi Steve,

I suppose it was inevitable that this path would be followed eventually, especially after the recent post, about whether a Facebook Group should be set up.

Personally, I see this as a sad day. While the intention is to have a Facebook group and the Forum running in tandem, I doubt whether this will happen.

As a user of the Forum I would carry on as normal, but if I post a request for help with identification or to pass on information about developments with moth traps for instance, will someone actually be prepared to get that onto Facebook ?

Similarly, if something appears on Facebook, would that request/information also appear on the Forum ?

We are both members of LCES, so we have first hand experience of how I am thinking. How much information comes out as email content, now that a Facebook group is in existence ?

I can count my recent communications on 1 finger.

I hope I am wrong, but I see this as the beginning of the end for the Forum moth group.

Mel.

[SteveMcBill]

Mel,

I too am concerned about the development of a Facebook Group, despite it seeming to be the more common way forward with such things at the moment.

My concerns centre around the ability to search for particular posts or groups of posts by key words and also, the ability to access photos posted to the group over time.

I hope I am wrong but I currently see these as key factors in maintaining the current Forum and feel, perhaps incorrectly, that they are things we will lose by going to a Facebook Group. Like you I fear that the development of an FB Group will see the demise, over time, of this useful Forum -

I am not normally a Luddite but think I may be heading that way as I get older (at least in this circumstance).

Steve

[stevehind]

I joined Facebook about a year ago when I heard that Ben Smart had set up a ‘Micro Moth Field Tips’ group in which he was posting his discoveries. This group contains many useful posts and is an extension to his recently published book with the same title. I have found this group very useful during the year, not just for the many useful tips on how to find micros in their larval stages but also as a reminder as to which species are currently to be found at different times of the year.

I have also joined the groups British leafminers and Caterpillars, which see a number of daily posts, especially at this time of year and have often thought how helpful these groups would be to other Cheshire recorders, who are currently missing out on so much useful information, including forum members but especially those recorders who are still unwilling to join this forum. A good example is the recent workshop at Liverpool Museum on Insects at Light (excl. moths) which was publicised well in advance on some of the local Facebook sites but only as a late after thought, on the forum. Migrant Lepidoptera, is another group I visit, as I use this for advanced notice of any likely influx of migrant moths into Cheshire.

I also look at the Derbyshire, Lancashire & Staffordshire groups to see which moths are turning up in our neighbouring counties, as they could and often do turn up in Cheshire at the same time. A good example are the recent sightings of Vine’s Rustic on the Wirral, as this species is also turning up in South Lancashire. One was caught recently in St Helens. Many of you may be unaware that there is already a Cheshire Moth Group on Facebook. Paul Hillyer set up the Halton Moth Group last year and has been arranging mothing sessions throughout the year and posting photos/videos of their events. Some of the videos have been particularly amusing.

I also visit some of the national moth groups to see what is being found and discussed further afield. These have recently attracted posts from Cheshire Moth-ers who are not on the forum and probably not aware of our existence and some of these have been of real interest e.g. a catch of 5 Pale Eggar one night last week in SJ46, just south of Chester and the counties second record of False Codling Moth in NE Cheshire. Hopefully by creating a Cheshire Moths Facebook group, it will encourage these recorders to join us.

Both Zoe Randle & Les Hill of Butterfly Conservation are on Facebook and often issue information directly to county moth groups and many of our national moth experts help with identifications via social media.

Mel mentions the lack of recent emails to Lancashire & Cheshire Entomological Society members. The LCES Facebook site is not that busy but even here we have a new moth-er. Many members of the forum are not members of the LCES. Hopefully more members will be encouraged to join the LCES via the Facebook group.

I was interested to hear from Steve McWilliam that we have the ability to find particular posts. Please do tell us how Steve. I have often gone back looking for previous posts, not always successfully. Presumably it’s via the Search box but I’ve never had any success with this, so please do spill the beans.

Regards
Steve

[SteveMcBill]

You make some good arguments Steve - I will be interested to see how it goes. I am merely reluctant to see this Forum dissipate and I think it may well do so.

Ref the Search on this Forum - may I ask have you used the Advanced search facility (http://www.record-lrc.co.uk/forum/search.php) which I have used with some success, especially when using keywords with the + modifier. Try typing in +eggar and you should get all instances where a post contains the word "eggar" - including the one in your post on this thread. The advanced search has other facilities too.

Steve

[SteveH]

Hi Folks,

Well, I knew there were others out there who had no time for Facebook as well as myself but the responses from Mel and Steve McW do outline genuine concerns as to the future of this forum. To re-iterate, there is no obligation to join the Facebook group and I am quite sure there are no expectations for those submitting posts to this Forum to replicate it onto Facebook or vice-versa - that just doesn't make sense to me either.

As I said in the original post, the forming of the Facebook group was founded on the fact that it has been discovered (by Steve HH) that there are folks out there posting sightings which we as county recorders are missing out on - because they don't know about this Forum and Facebook is 'what everyone has access to' (clearly they don't know me - I don't even have a mobile phone !).

My expectation is that those who submit to this Forum continue as-is - whether they join the Facebook Group or not; queries and what have you will still be responded to as-is. The Facebook Group is aimed at latching onto potential newbies in terms of records for VC58, not as a replacement forum.

If it looks as if this Forum is ever placed at risk due to the Facebook pages then I would be asking for the Facebook site to be discontinued and, if possible, to have a link in its place pointing to this Forum. To me, our Forum here is far too good to lose.

Cheers,
Steve

[anno]

Hi All,

Just a couple of observations really, as an active member of both this forum and the Halton Moth Group Facebook Group, I think we are missing the point, they are both valuable but very much a different beasts !

I very seldom post in this forum, but I do look at the site most mornings and as a 'sleeper' gain valuable insights and identification tips. It is also worth noting how much traffic this site gets and compare it to the other Forums hosted by the RECORD site, some of which are very old and quite bizarre (see Birds !).

The Facebook site is a social media site and as such does what it says on the tin - we discuss our local finds and encourage participation and arrange 'meets' - it also does an invaluable job in giving the wider public an appreciation of these misunderstood and sometimes reviled creatures.

The two are very different but are separate enterties with very different briefs, but both are most importantly accessible and raise awareness, and can be run side by side.

So, for me, Facebook is a little bit like Large Yellow Underwings, big, loud and ugly - but we love them, and Micromoths, tricky ,fascinating and thought provoking - but both welcome in my trap !!

Anno

[stevehind]

I completely agree with what Steve H has posted and will continue to use the Forum as my main way of communicating with moth-ers in the county. On some of the Facebook groups I visit there is an introductory post explaining the groups purpose and I have asked that a Cheshire Moth Facebook site should include a link to the Forum, in an effort to encourage those on social media to join us.

I've finally been able to successfully search for past posts, so thanks to Steve M for explaining the advanced search procedure which will make the Forum even more useful to me.

Regards,
Steve

[SteveMcBill]

Glad to hear you have the Advanced Search facility cracked Steve. I wonder if many of out readers/contributors know of it and use it ??

Steve

[Greg]

It looks like Mels fears have been realised. It seems that the forum is in decline.
Either that or no ones trapping anymore, which I'm sure's not the case.

It's a great shame.

Greg

[PaulHopkins]

I don't know, it's not like the Facebook page is buzzing with activity either. And this forum has always had dry spells... That's just my impression though, I guess to be sure you'd have to do some analysis of the forum logs. Steve McW, what are your thoughts?

Cheers
Paul

[melbellingham]

This year most of my moth recording in Cheshire has been carried out in my own garden. Other than that, I have only been ‘out’ a couple of times, and that was at RSPB Burton Mere Wetlands.

Although I seem to have had a reasonable year, for species and numbers, it does get harder to get the NFG species that others seem to be recording. I haven’t been posting very often this year, as a result, but I do visit the forum most days, just to see what others are catching. Generally, there are a few nice photo’s which are always good to see, a few requests for assistance involving unidentified micro’s, which I imagine are as helpful to others as they are to me and sometimes reports of exceptional catches or species. Occasionally, new species and information involving recording in Cheshire are reported, which keep us all informed.

Perhaps other members are doing the same, as when I visit the Forum, there always seem to be reasonable numbers of visitors. Whether they are members or guests it is hard to tell. When I visit the Forum for instance, unless I am posting onto the Forum, I do not login. Many of the posts are viewed hundreds of times, and as I do not repeatedly read the same posts unless there has been a reply, it would still suggest that the Forum is at least being used.

Away from Cheshire I have spent a week in both Scotland and Dorset, with the moth trap of course, and made two mothing trips to Ireland, with two other members of the Forum, where we recorded some rare and stunning moths. As the season winds down, it is likely that I might post a few photographs, just to make you all envious, but at the back of my mind, I do wonder whether when other members and guests visit the Forum, they just want to read about Cheshire moths.

Are members satisfied with the Forum as it is, or could they be looking for other things?

While the Forum is still being used, perhaps we could have a think about ways to go forward. If everyone is happy to carry on the way it is, then fine. If members think it could be better, then perhaps we should be made aware of their ideas.

Mel.

[PaulHopkins]

Prodded into activity by Greg's post, I had a look for moths in my garden this afternoon. Slim pickings, but Rhomboid Tortrix was a nice NFY.

Incidentally, about Mel's concern whether to post moths from outside Cheshire: the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned, I can't wait to see the haul from Ireland!

Cheers
Paul

[SteveH]

Morning folks,

having just come home from (yet another) period away I was a little surprised to see this thread had been re-kindled and moreso that some members fear this forum is in decline. I've not for once thought it was in decline and believe it to be on par with the activity I've noticed since I joined.

Out of necessity I use the Facebook page but always post there AND here - so the very few people who use both sites are probably pig sick of reading my stuff twice! That having been said I believe there are very few people in that position. The Facebook group has 67 members but the vast majority are just looking, not actually posting anything which I suspect is the same as the forum is and has always been.

However, there are a few people who not only view but post ONLY on the Facebook page so for Steve HH and I its a valuable source of information. Equally, it gives the both of us access to other moth groups around Cheshire and neighbouring Counties so we can get an idea as to what is going on in our general area, which in turn assists in assessing some of the rarer moth reports that come in from time to time.

At this time of year there will be a significant drop-off in activity on the forum in any case and doubtless that will be mirrored on Facebook too.

Cheers,
Steve

PS I'm away from Monday for another couple of weeks