1 More NFY

[Greg]

Morning All

Another bailing out session this morning. But a few moths managed to stay dry.

1 Figure of Eight NFY
1 Chestnut
2 Green-brindled Crescent
1 Barred Sallow
1 Pink-barred Sallow
1 Lesser Yellow Underwing
1 Spruce Carpet
1 November Moth agg

Greg

[stevehind]

Trapping has been good here recently with the mild weather. 314 moths of 50 species so far this month to the MV light. Picked 14 moths of 9 species off the fence by the trap at 8:30pm last night, including Juniper Carpet NFY and a couple of Blastobasis lacticolella, my first since 1st August. The nights catch was 56 moths of 18 species, including another NYF Ypsolopha parenthesella. Thought I’d missed that one this year, as it usually appears in August.

Regards
Steve

[JulianB]

Some nice moths in there for you both. We've never had a Figure of Eight.

We only ran the LED last night, sheltering it inside the doorway of an outbuilding and trapping a whopping 5 moths (about par for the course of late): 1 Yellow-line Quaker, 1 Red-line Quaker, 1 November Moth agg, and 2 Autumn Green Carpets (NFY).

The latter are, of course, tricky to sneak past one's County Recorders..... last year we mis-identified a Red-green Carpet as an Autumn Green Carpet, but had one other record accepted. I hope these two past the test! I have more pictures if needed, from more conventional angles.

If the moth hunches up and lacks bright shots of purple, then I find separating these two can be difficult.

Regards, Julian

[Greg]

Hi Julian,

They both look good for Autumn Green Carpets to me.
We don't get them in our area of Cheshire, they are more of an upland species.


Regards
Greg

[JulianB]

Thanks Greg - I now approach these with great caution!

Cheers, Julian

[stevehind]

Hi Julian

The one on the right is a Autumn Green Carpet, although not sure about the one on the left. I reckon that is Red-Green. If you have any more photos of that one then could you upload them please.

Regards
Steve

[JulianB]

Thanks Steve - I think I'll upgrade these from mildly tricky to devilishly difficult!

I've attached photos below of six Red-green Carpets from our garden this year for comparison (photo'd sequentially throughout the year) - all of these have significant red colouration, and we didn't hesitate in their identification.

I've then attached a further montage of three photos each of the left and right-hand query Autumn Green Carpets. The photos were taken on different backgrounds under different lighting conditions. The white background on the centre left query is from the wall of the LED trap. The centre right query looks yellow as it was taken under fluorescent lighting; all the other five photos were illuminated with a daylight-balanced LED bulb.

Thanks again, Julian

[Greg]

Hi Julian

I see what you mean, they look very difficult to separate by markings and colour alone. Having never caught an
Autumn Green Carpet and just going by descriptions from my books and photos online, I'm not really qualified
to give an opinion either way. I just hope that if and when I do see one in the flesh it will be conclusive.

Regards
Greg

[stevehind]

Hi Julian
Thanks for posting these. Are the three photos called “Autumn Green Carpet Query Left” all of the same moth, only the middle one looks like Autumn Green Carpet whereas those to the right and left look narrower-winged and resemble the shape of a Red-green Carpet? Those titles “Autumn Green Carpet Query Right” are all correct.
Regards
Steve

[JulianB]

Hi Steve - Yes, the three photos labelled “Autumn Green Carpet Query Left” are all of the same insect. The centre image is how I found the moth resting on the white plastic wall of the trap, so perhaps this is its natural resting position. The two flanking images (almost identical) were after I moved it out of the trap onto a more neutral background. Likewise the strip of three images below are all of the second moth (centre and right images as found on the egg box).

These two moths did look different to the Red-green Carpets we've been catching, right from the moment I first opened the trap. We had two more Red-greens last night, and I wouldn't have considered either a candidate for an Autumn Green.

It does seem that distinguishing between these two is easiest when they have their wings fully stretched out -identification seems harder when they start to fold/hunch the wing in somewhat, as some of the key differences in pattern start to disappear.

But I'm happy with the one, if you have any reservations!

Cheers, Julian

[stevehind]

Thanks Julian
This illustrates some of the limitations of attempting to identify a moth from a single photo, where the angle the photo is taken from can give a misleading impression of the jizz, as Autumn Green Carpet has broader wings, which is a good way of separating them as not all Red-green Carpets show a reddish tinge.
Glad we were able to resolve this.
Regards
Steve