Lots fewer moths

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PaulHopkins
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:11 pm
Location: Bromborough, Wirral. MapMate Recorder

Lots fewer moths

Post by PaulHopkins »

Back down to earth with a bang this morning. That’s going to be it for a while I think.

5 Small Quaker
4 Hebrew Character
1 Clouded Drab
1 Common Quaker
1 Pale Pinion
1 Brindled Pug.

Plus this little micro in the garage, though I imagine there isn't enough to go on for ID here. (Forewing length 5.5mm)

Cheers
Paul
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Greg
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:10 am
Location: Davenham Nr Northwich

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by Greg »

Hi Paul,

It makes a change for me to get more moths than you.
It wasn't quite as cold last night, no frost this morning.
14 of 7 species in the trap including NFY Diurnea fagella.
Though I would have preferred your Pale Pinion.

Regards
Greg
melbellingham
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Great Sutton, Cheshire. Mapmate.

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by melbellingham »

Hi Paul,

Your micro could be Carpatolechia decorella. I have recorded 1 or 2 each year recently, and as far as I know it is the only gellechid (which your moth looks like) that is flying at present, having emerged (as an adult) sometime last year and re-emerged after hibernation.

I'm sure though that someone might have a bit more to say.

Mel.
stevehind
Posts: 2908
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Higher Poynton, Cheshire

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by stevehind »

Hi Paul

A good call from Mel but probably too worn to be sure so maybe a good candidate to test out your new dissection
skills on.

Regards
Steve
PaulHopkins
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:11 pm
Location: Bromborough, Wirral. MapMate Recorder

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by PaulHopkins »

Thanks Mel and Steve. I did think gelechiid with those big labial palps, but beyond this I had no clue. Unfortunately it's flown the coop now, I still haven't quite got used to the idea of retaining specimens for examination! I guess if there's one there will be more, if I find another I'll follow your suggestion Steve.

Amazingly after admiring Greg's Shoulder Stripe yesterday, I found one in the shed this afternoon - either a straggler from last night's trapping, or just one that's found its way there in the normal course of events.

Cheers
Paul
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Shoulder Stripe
Shoulder Stripe
PaulHopkins
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:11 pm
Location: Bromborough, Wirral. MapMate Recorder

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by PaulHopkins »

After a possible Carpatolechia decorella in the Spring, I had another last night - not that I managed to arrive at an ID myself, I posted a query on the Facebook micro moths group had a suggestion of this species (Ramon Hulsbosch). Again, I haven’t retained the moth, are these photos enough for a positive ID?

(Sorry they’re upside down, even if I edit the pics to rotate, they still upload like this - not sure why).

Cheers
Paul
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GasMacc1
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:10 am

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by GasMacc1 »

Hi Paul,

I looked up the grading guidelines for Carpatolechia decorella. It's a Category 3 - which had me reaching for the guidance document, to find out what that means!

Category 3: Very scarce species (includes very scarce adventives/immigrants). A voucher specimen may be required by your VCR (seek advice before releasing the moth). A good set of photographs showing all critical identification features clearly may suffice in some cases.

Noting that you've provided a pretty good pair of photos (albeit upside down :D ), and taking on board Mel's and Steve's comments from earlier in the year, I'm going to have a look at the books (including the Cheshire Atlas) to inform myself about this species and get back to you. In the meantime, if anyone with previous experience of Carpatolechia decorella would like to comment, that would be very helpful.

Watch this space!

Cheers,
Dave.
GasMacc1
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:10 am

Re: Lots fewer moths

Post by GasMacc1 »

Following a suggestion from Steve Hind, I contacted Steve Palmer, who runs the Gelechiidae recording scheme, for his comments. Steve kindly replied with the following very informative response:

"This is a tricky one as normally C. decorella records are very late or v. early in the season (they are one of the very few Gelechiidae that overwinter). They do, however, first emerge in late July and hence at this time of year other Carpatolechia need considering - in this case C. fugitivella.

Both species have a considerable range of variation in their forewing markings and, despite the excellent quality of the photo, I cannot make out the main (but subtle) difference in these two - C. decorella has slightly thinner forewings than fugitivella. Other more variable features are mentioned in the books, such as a dark streak on the fold, a patch of raised scales below the fold (both in fugitivella) or a dark elongate spot at the base of the costa (in decorella). The photo does not allow the raised scales to be seen and I can't see a dark streak on the fold. There is a prominent and obvious black streak at the base of the costa (a good feature for decorella) but fugitivella can have a dark mark in this area (often less strong). A look with a hand lens at this area can usually sort out the nature of this bar of black. From the photo, this to me suggests C. decorella is the most likely of the two. Further information as to nearby habitat and foodplant availability may help (mature oaks in woodland for decorella or hedgerow elms for fugitivella) but the latter does wander some way from the nearest elms, whereas decorella seems to be much more sedentary.

If I had caught this myself I'd probably dissect it to make absolutely sure, unless the thinner forewings of decorella can be seen. This can be achieved by disturbing the moth in the pot but the observer would really need to be familiar with what the proportions of fugitivella wings look like".


So I think the verdict, unfortunately, is that we'll have to leave this one as Carpatolechia sp., with a comment that, on balance, it's more likely to be decorella.
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